Hands up if you think it is possible to get any sense into the relationship between the UK and other EU countries. If no one put their hand up they are sadly all too correct. The Tory rebels who caused the defeat of the Government over the EU budget have not only shown us that the Tory party is undisciplined [ in sharp contrast to the LibDems] but have made it much less likely that Cameron can get any sort of movement towards the British position on the budget. So he might have to use the veto [which is not a veto] because if no budget can be agreed there is a formula that operates to keep the EU solvent & which will most likely involve an increase in the UK contribution. Well done those rebels. Of course they will then try & wriggle out by saying that this proves the UK should quit Europe. So what if we do quit? Does anyone with half a brain think that the rest of the EU would continue to offer the kind of trade deals that we get as of right from being in the EU? After we have been such a gold medal pain in the backside for decades? The rest of the EU would be more likely to ring the church bells in celebration of our departure. And what of Labour? Having attacked Cameron for 'leaving the room' and marginalising Britain how is Miliband going to explain having essentially forced Cameron to repeat the performance? We are supposed to be returning to old fashioned school discipline so perhaps he should write out one hundred times the definition of integrity.